Feb 13, 2009 - False Doctrine    78 Comments

What does "Kenite" mean?

The most read post on this blog is about Arnold Murray’s doctrine of the serpent seed. Since it gets so much traffic and venom (no pun intended), I thought it would be good to update it. Some of the links are no longer working, the youtube video mentioned in the comments has been removed, and Shepherd’s Chapel has updated their website. By the way, it is hardly reasonable to call this a “bash on Arnold Murray site,” since there are roughly 100 posts & only two (counting this one) discuss Murray. 

There are many comments on the old post, but none actually addressed a question that I asked. What does “Kenite” mean? On his “Answer to Critics” page, Murray states:

What about the use of the word Kenites? It is a Hebrew word that has only one meaning, “sons of Cain.”

Strong’s Concordance and the Brown-Driver-Briggs’ lexicon do not give this definition. None of the commenters addressed this issue (other than Kendall Rycroft, who simply says that I am wrong), this is probably because they just pasted in comments they previously posted on a “I-know-Murray-is-right-because-I-can-look-up-words-in-Strong’s-concordance-and-anyone-who-criticizes-him-is-Satan’s-seed” forum (e.g., Bill). Strong’s concordance is a valuable tool for Bible study, by the way, it is not my intent to disparage it.  I plan on addressing its value in my upcoming post of Arnold Murray.

To help me with the next post, I would like to ask two questions for my commenters.

  1. Could you name a source (other than Arnold Murray) for the word “Kenites” meaning “sons of Cain”?
  2. Are there any printed materials or materials that Arnold Murray has written online?

I asked for printed materials because I do not have the time or desire to go through a lot of audio messages. I will be glad to compare Murray’s own words with the teaching of the Scriptures. I realize there is some information on his website, but there is really not much there. Any additional sources would be appreciated.

About commenting:

  • If this is your first comment, I will have to approve it before it is public. If you have had comments approved in the past, it will show up immediately. 
  • I am looking for resources in this comment thread, not arguments. If you think Murray is right, then you can post your arguments on my next post about him.
  • Don’t expect me to answer comments on this post. I will on the next and I’ll give you a chance to defend Murray…

Thanks in advance!

78 Comments

  • [...] UPDATE: What does “Kenite” mean? [...]

    • The origanl Strongs concordance most certainly does translate the word kenite, as sons of Cain. You must have one of those new ones

  • If my memory serves most modern editions of Strong’s Concordance took out the Kenite = Cain connection. Murray actually tells people to buy a specific edition of Strongs that still has the Kenite definition of sons of Cain in it. I don’t remember the specifics of that particular edition.

    • I have had my Strongs Exhaustive Concordance for about 43 years now, and so I looked up the Kenite and it does show the connection between Cain and the kenites. The meaning is First born as Cain.
      I do not agree with alot of Arnald Murray’s teachings but he is right about this Name. I think he is wrong about this thearory, but the link to the name is there.

      • Thanks, Dale. I have checked several Strong’s but have not found this definition. Perhaps it was changed at some point. However, Arnold’s statement quoted in the article “What about the use of the word Kenites? It is a Hebrew word that has only one meaning, ‘sons of Cain.’” simply is not true. There have been many people named Cain throughout history. The descendants of Cain mentioned in Genesis 4 all perished in the flood. Any Kenites mentioned after the flood must have descended from one of the 3 sons of Noah.

  • Here’s a reference from my E-Sword edition of Strongs, for what it’s worth:

    H7014
    קין
    qayin
    kah’-yin
    The same as H7013 (with a play upon the affinity to H7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe: – Cain, Kenite (-s).

  • James, Thanks for this info. I looked in my hardback Strong’s and did not find that definition. The E-Sword edition does not define it as Kenite; it only denotes that the word is translated in the KJV as Cain, Kenite, or Kenites. That’s what the words after the :- mean

    • I see you are still trying to prove Arnold wrong and I know this will be deleted so this is to you Jack get a life, in stead of trying to prove a paster that has 1000s who study under him wrong and you with your 6, heres one for ya look up the word flesh used in Gen 6 about the flood and you will see it says 2 of all flesh, flesh is translated human beings so not only did Noah and his family live through the flood so did all the races, 2 of all flesh, learn to read your Bible and stop listening to your tainted personal point of view and lets go one step farther you will be accountable for what you teach as the Bible states judgement starts in the pulpit, and Arnold is the first to say to never take his word but study to show yourself approved. Are you ? Find that one mister Bible scholar. if you do not believe what the Bible says who is it that you are believing? Be warned that only 2 churches met with Christ approvel, out of 7, which church are you in? Get a life and teach others to know Jesus and stop making a fool of yourself trying to prove someone wrong, oh I forgot you have been appointed by God to do this, are you a prophet? someone special in Gods eyes. Ouch! but that dosen’t even put a dent in that pride you have, you know who else had pride, yea, the men that nailed Jesus to the cross and as the Bible says “right in there own minds” but far from the truth, pride, Im so special I am Gods protector, by the way his name is not God. do you know his name? it is not YHWH, later your emenance.

  • The word for Cain and Kenite are obviously linked, but that does not mean they are speaking of genetically linked in all cases. The origin of the word ties to something being acquired the first time. Therefore Eve’s ignorant / decieved statement “I have gotten a man from Yahweh…” She acquired her “FIRST CHILD”, sa the Strong’s definition points out. SO, the word CAN be pointing at the lineage of Cain at times or Cain himself, but it at other times has nothing to do with Cain or his lineage and is pointing at the idea of FIRST CHILD or ACQUIRED or GOTTEN from Yahweh by the mother. A different way of saying ‘firstborn’ than the usual.

    JETHRO is to had descended or RATHER had been a “kenite”. Folks, MOSES MARRIED HIS DAUGHTER!!! Do you understand the danger of what you claim when you point at Zipporah and claim she is unfit? JETHRO was an ISRAYLITE of the lineage of JOSEPH. Therefore, Jethro is an Israylite that had left Egypt before slavery, set up camp in Midianite territory, and formally ETHIOPIAN territory, therefore Zipporah is termed both Midianite and Ethiopian BY TERRITORY, NOT GENETICS. By the way, Midianites and Ethiopians would not have been the same genetics, so it MUST be refering to territorial and not genetics. See christianparty.net forum for more info on why Jethro was Israylite. Also Book of Jashur.

    • I don’t think God is teaching us that all Kenites are bad, because in Jonh 3:16 God gave His Son so whomever believes will be saved. I think He wants us to know the serpent seed and his decendants because of the false teachings and their goals to bring about placing satan on the Throne of God. Read and study teh first 3 chapters of Revelation. Pay close attention to the church of Smryna and Philadelphia. Pay attention to the content these two church taught. All souls that came from abovefrom God and through the womb has a chance of salvation. Study Matthew 3:3

  • You people are not searching this out in study! Kenite is not a “Jew”. The term Jew only came about after Jacob which was way after Cain. Those of you who wish to make this into a discussion of strife and division are only hurting yourselves!
    It will also be obvious that yall do not study with the Key of David, nor know the basics of the Ages. And there are several versions of the strongs and the oldest and the newest do list the proper meaning of the Word kenite. “Son of cain” which can also be understood in the context of the Innerliner.
    If you people who bother to study the word you would see the overwhelming evidence of who and what the Kenites are and what their actions have been in the word. You would see that the Mark of Cain is visible with them even in the Nt. and you would see the two churches Christ found no fault with in rev (2&3) taught this very thing.
    and to say that those who hold these truths as self evident label all who disagree serpents or Kenites is just bad information and untrue. there are a lot of nut cases out there and you can not steriotype all cause of one.
    so it seems many just have their eyes closed to certain truths and are not drawn to study or embrace such. To each his own. This is not an anti sametic teaching and even tracks back to early Judaisim. This truth is as old as flesh man.

    • Ruach
      You are very correct in what you say, Kenites are not Jews. They infiltrated the tribe of Judah and claim to be Jews but are of the synagouge of satan. Read Jude 1:4, Rev:2:8-11 and Rev:3:7-13 and you will see that they pretend to be Jews. Understand that satan nor is angels knows the plan of God or he (satan) never would have been so set on crusifying our Lord and Savior. Study and understand the key of David that is spoken of in Revelation 3:7. Understand and know why they are pretending to be Jews and from the tribe of Judah.

  • Oh, I see. people are welcome to bash but all coresponding responces and documentation rarely if ever make it through the filter of the moderation here. That is a good sign that someone embraces pride and is perhaps filtering truth while encourageing bashing (strife and division). Yeah that is very Christian like, NOT. The truth still remains that there are those of use who do study and recognise the Ruach. There always will be. We can’t be silenced. and truth is out there for whomever seeketh it in their hearts. Personally I think the tactics and context of those who run this site are Spam. The only reason you get any views is cause you use the titles of truth teachings and that their are many who seek to cover up what has been revealed. This is a joke, and since my prior post uses evidence to show such I will not look for it to be accepted by those who run this circus. I hope all grow closer to god and recieve all that is coming to them in due time. God’s will shall be done and judgement starts at the pulpit! ^1

  • Shalom..
    From what i understand.. Kenites are descended from Canaan.. the descendent of Ham.. Jael was a cool lady.. a Kenite if i correctly recall.. The Word warns us not to become bogged down by endless geneaologies..

    • Wrong! The land of Canaan was were God palced all of the children and decendants from the fallen angels and gave the commandment to Israel to go into the land (which was the land of promise) and wipe out all the inhabitants down to their children and no one was to be left alive. Needless to say Israel failed miseralbaly.

      • George said: “The land of Canaan was were God palced all of the children and decendants from the fallen angels”

        Do you have any reference for this in Scripture?

  • Another doctrine heresy lie from the pit of hell.

  • Another example of Modalism. Murray not only teaches these false blasphemous doctrines about from the Bible but also denies the Trinity too. Another eternal disaster snare and stumbling block to people who are accepting this.

    • Arnold has it right. For anyone who is interested in “The Word”, and getting it right, Go and study with him and use a King James Bible. The Holy Spirit is with all who study with him. And, the Simple Truth is, he has it right. Amen.

    • I have sudied with Pastor Murray as well as lots of other teachers. I have never heard him or any of them deny the Trinty. 1John 3 says who is a lier except one that denies the Christ. If a person has not really studied the Bible and kind of go alone with some one tells them is denying the Christ. Jesus is the word of God and if you have never read it and studied it, then tell me who is teaching and spouting blasphemy.

  • @SanAntonio Prayer Warrior
    I love the Word and the King James Bible. The Holy Spirit is with all who have been born again. God teaches us to evaluate whether teaching is correct or not. Simply saying he “has it right” is not much of an argument. If you are intent on proving this, perhaps you could help me by providing answers to the post above…

  • I thought I would bring a non christian view to this although I am a christian. Maybe a non christian could help those doubters know that Pastor Murray teaches is truth. I have studied our presidents of the USA linage for some years now and all of them in their lineage can be traced back to the lineage of cain. Oops now what. The illuminati of which all of our presidents are members are only of the lineage of Cain. That is one reason why they are so interested on the internet to know our lineage and keep track of their own. It also helps them keep track of their enemies, namely us.
    I am a pastor as well and have been now for some time. I have studied many many hours every day for 26 years and I know the word well and I know my God well and I know my Enemy well.
    What is so hard to believe here?
    Study yourself and you will see. Check the lineage of your Royal ones and you will see who the Kenites are.
    Also before you are quick to jump and judge be careful. The times are very tenuous now and you surely do not want to be judged as you judge others. Do You? Study and then comment or better yet study and then ask questions. A little knowledge is a danger thing especially when you judge one of Gods own.
    I will be happy to answer questions of any one who asks.

    • Kathy, your comment is bizarre. Cain’s descendants perished in the flood. Noah was from the line of Seth (see Genesis 5). Your comment also has nothing to do with the questions posed in the post. Did you even read it? If you “will be happy to answer questions of any one who asks,” then you could start with reading the post above and commenting on it. Any further comments off topic will not be published.

    • Kathy

      Kathy i agree with you, How many Kenites are
      in Jerusalem waiting for anti-christ to come.
      I know we are to support Israel the 12 tribes
      God said we are to get out of thier because he
      well destroy it after Anti-christ comes

      Are we to keep supporting Israel at thus time
      with all the trouble over thier.

      Erna

  • The Kenites

    Who are the Kenites? They are a race of people who exist throughout the entire word of God. Surprisingly, most people don’t even know they exist or who they are. However, identifying them for who they are and knowing their role is pivotal to understanding God’s word. The word Kenite, if fully translated instead of transliterated, means sons of Cain. As with a lot of subjects in the bible, people are taught man’s word and not God’s. This leaves them unaware of so many truths so simply put forth by our Father. We find there is plenty written concerning the Kenites throughout the Word to document these sons of Cain, if we let God do the teaching and not man.
    Did the Kenites make it through the flood? Yes they did. Kenites claim to be Jews but they are not. Jesus Christ was talking to some in John 8:42-47 and we read in Revelation 2:8-11 and 3:7-13 that they will be here right to the time Jesus Christ returns. Just so no one gets the wrong idea, the true Jewish people are of the tribe of Judah and part of God’s chosen people Israel (Genesis 49:1-28 and Isaiah 44:1). For the sick people in this world that feel they need to rid the world of the Jewish people, you are harming God’s chosen people and you will pay!
    In Genesis 6:19 God told Noah “And of every living thing of all flesh you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. Now, if all the races were created on the sixth day and in Genesis 6:3 God said, that man was flesh also. We know that Noah and his sons did not repopulate the whole earth. If they did then the educated me with documentation

    • Cain’s descendants perished in the flood. No doubt other peoples throughout the centuries have been referred to as Kenites, but they are not the descendants of Cain.

      • God put a mark on Cain a swore sevenfold vegeance on anyone that killed him. God had a reason for keeping Cain alive and his decendants alive in this earth. I believe the flood of Noah was only to wipe out all the giants and hybrids that were born to the daughters of man from the sons of God(Gen.6:1-6. Noah’s flood brought them to a whole new part of the world they had never seem. Now on the other hand the flood God brought on the first earth age destroyed the entire heave and the earth and there was not one man left alive. (2Peter 3:5-7).

      • George, could you read the post “Who perished in the flood?” and tell me how it is not true? If it is true, then this whole doctrine is nonsense.

      • Jack you are wrong. God said to take 2 of every living flesh on the arc

    • Regarding races: God made two people in the beginning – Adam & Eve. Where did the races come from? Here’s a good answer – http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/are-there-different-races

      • God made man (Adam without the article) on the 6th day in Genesis1:26-31. In Genesis 2:1 reads as thus: “Thus the heaveans and the earth were finished and all the host of them”. The key word here is HOST.

        H6635 צְבָאָה צָבָא tsâbâʼ tsebâʼâh tsaw-baw’, tseb-aw-aw’ From H6633; a mass of persons (or figurative things), especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically hardship, worship):—appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).

        On the 7th day He rested. On the 8th day (new beginnings) He formed man (with the article). eth Adam meaning the man. The one whose decendants Christ would come. Adam (with the article) in Genesis 2 was formed from the dust of the ground. It was the daughters of this man Adam that the sons of God went into to try and corrupt the blood line that Christ would come theough (Gen.6) The man Adam (without the article) in Genesis 1 was created and simply means mankind.

      • Host simply refers to everything God made in the heavens and earth. For example host of stars…
        Usage determines the meaning of words. The context of this word has nothing to do with armies or war. There are no armies or war mentioned anywhere in context.

      • When we chase the word host back to the Hebrew, first and foremost it means ” a mass of persons”

      • George, the definitions in Strong’s could be compared to a small dictionary that you purchase at a dollar store. The definitions are adequate but far from complete. If you read Strong’s introduction to the dictionary, he acknowledges his point in the dictionary is brevity. Here’s the entry for the same word in a fuller lexicon: 7372 II. צָבָא (ṣā∙ḇā(ʾ)): n.masc.; ≡ Str 6635; TWOT 1865a, 1865b—1. LN 55.7-55.13 army, host, i.e., a military congregation as a large fighting unit (1Sa 12:9), note: for MT text in Zec 9:8, see 5166; 2. LN 55.7-55.13 division, i.e., a smaller unit of a total army (Nu 1:3); 3. LN 11.1-11.11 divisions, i.e., a subjnct.-group of civilian persons in relationship to a whole group (Ex 7:4); 4. LN 11.1-11.11 large group, vast array, i.e., a huge amount of persons, creatures, spirit beings, or objects all of the same class (Ge 2:1; Dt 4:19; 1Ki 22:19); 5. LN 35.19-35.30 service, i.e., the rendering of assistance and help for duties (Nu 4:3, 23); 6. LN 55.2-55.6 battle, skirmish, i.e., an individual fight with an enemy as part of a larger war (Nu 31:4); 7. LN 22.15-22.20 trouble, hard service, i.e., the experiencing of hardship and trouble in the midst of service (Job 7:1; 14:14); 8. LN 1.26-1.33 stars, i.e., points of light seen in the night sky (Dt 17:3), note: often believed to embody or represent deities; 9. LN 12.1-12.42 the Almighty, i.e., a title of God (1Sa 1:3); 10. LN 55.14-55.22 unit: עַם הַ־ צָבָא (ʿǎm hǎ- ṣā∙ḇā(ʾ))2 soldier, formally, people of the army, i.e., one in military service (Nu 31:32); 11. LN 55.14-55.22 unit: שַׂר צָבָא (śǎr ṣā∙ḇā(ʾ))2 commander, formally, prince of the army, i.e., one in military service as an officer (Dt 20:9); 12. LN 55.14-55.22 unit: עַל הַ־ צָבָא (ʿǎl hǎ- ṣā∙ḇā(ʾ))2 commander-in-chief, formally, over the army, i.e., one as the head of the entire army (1Ki 4:4); 13. LN 6.29-6.40 unit: כְּלִי צָבָא (kelî ṣā∙ḇā(ʾ))2 weapon, formally, vessel of war, i.e., any of the offensive instruments armies use to kill the enemy (1Ch 12:38[EB 37])
        James Swanson, Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament), electronic ed. (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), DBLH 7372, #13.

      • I was reading your definition of the word host and you are saying the exact thing I said. A mass of persons or an army are what ever you want to call it, it all happened on the 6th day.

      • The Nephilim, or “Giants”
        Genesis 6

        The progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam (with the article) are called in Genesis 6, N e-phil´-im, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah’s Word (Genesis 3:15).
        This was why the Flood was brought “upon the world of the ungodly” (2Peter 2:5) as prophesied by Enoch (Jude 14).
        But we read of the Nephilim again in Numbers 13:33 : “there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim”. How, it may be asked, could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood? The answer is contained in Genesis 6:4, where we read: “There were Nephilim in the earth in those days (that is to say, in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became [the] mighty men (Hebrew gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown” (literally, men of the name, that is to say, who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness).
        So that “after that”, that is to say, after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as “the nations of Canaan”. It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before.
        As to the date of this second irruption, it was evidently soon after it became known that the seed was to come through Abraham; for, when he came out from Haran (Genesis 12:6) and entered Canaan, the significant fact is stated: “The Canaanite was then (that is to say, already) in the land.” And in Genesis 14:5 they were already known as “Rephaim” and “Emim”, and had established themselves as Ashteroth Karnaim and Shaveh Kiriathaim.
        In chapter 15:18-21 they are enumerated and named among Canaanite Peoples: “Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites” (Genesis 15:19-21; compare Exodus 3:8, 17; 23:23. Deuteronomy 7; 20:17. Joshua 12:8).
        These were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed (Deuteronomy 20:17. Joshua 3:10). But Israel failed in this (Joshua 13:13; 15:63; 16:10; 17:18. Judges 1:19,20,28,29,30-36; 2:1-5; 3:1-7); and we know not how many got away to other countries to escape the general destruction. If this were recognized it would go far to solve many problems connected with Anthropology.
        As to their other names, they were called Anakim, from one Anak which came of the Nephilim (Numbers 13:22,33), and Rephaim, from Rapha, another notable one among them.
        From Deuteronomy 2:10, they were known by some as Emim, and Horim, and Zamzummim (verse 20,21) and Avim, etc.
        As Rephaim they were well known, and are often mentioned: but, unfortunately, instead of this, their proper name, being preserved, it is variously translated as “dead”, “deceased”, or “giants”. These Rephaim are to have no resurrection. This fact is stated in Isaiah 26:14 (where the proper name is rendered “deceased”, and verse 19, where it is rendered “the dead”).
        It is rendered “dead” seven times (Job 26:5. Psalm 88:10. Proverbs 2:18; 9:18; 21:16. Isaiah 14:8; 26:19).
        It is rendered “deceased” in Isaiah 26:14.
        It is retained as proper name “Rephaim” ten times (two being in the margin). Genesis 14:5; 15:20. Joshua 12:15 (margin). 2 Samuel 5:18, 22; 23:13, 1Chronicles 11:15; 14:9; 20:4. Isaiah 17:5.
        In all other places it is rendered “giants” , Genesis 6:4, Numbers 23:33, where it is Nephilim; and Job 16:14, where it is gibbor .
        By reading all these passages the Bible student may know all that can be known about these beings.
        It is certain that the second irruption took place before Genesis 14, for there the Rephaim were mixed up with the five nations or peoples, which included Sodom and Gomorrha, and were defeated by the four kings under Chedorlaomer. Their principal locality was evidently “Ashtaroth Karnaim”; while the Emim were in the plain of Kiriathaim (Genesis 14:5).
        Anak was a noted descendant of the Nephilim; and Rapha was another, giving their names respectively to different clans. Anak’s father was Arba, the original builder of Hebron (Genesis 35:27. Joshau 15:13; 21:11); and this Palestine branch of the Anakim was not called Abrahim after him, but Anakim after Anak. They were great, mighty, and tall (Deuteronomy 2:10, 11, 21, 22, 23; 9:2), evidently inspiring the ten spies with great fear (Numbers 12:33). Og king of Bashan is described in Deuteronomy 3:11).
        Their strength is seen in “the giant cities of Bashan” to-day; and we know not how far they may have been utilized by Egypt in the construction of buildings, which is still an unsolved problem.
        Arba was rebuilt by the Khabiri or confederates seven years before Zoan was built by Egyptian Pharaohs of the nineteenth dynasty.
        If these Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have an explanation of the problem which has for ages perplexed all engineers, as to how those huge stones and monuments were brought together. Why not in Egypt as well as in “the giant cities of Bashan” which exist, as such, to this day?
        Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the “men of renown,” the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the “heroes” of Genesis 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
        Thus the Babylonian “Creation Tablets”, the Egyptian “Book of the dead”, the Greek mythology, and heathen Comogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorted in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.
        So, you see the word host of Genesis 2:1 has a lot to do with war and preparing for battle and this why you are suppose, to put on the whole armor of God (Ephesians 6: 11-14) and the truth is, there is a demon seed and satan is a liar.

      • Jack,
        This might interest you. We know that Enoch from whom Noah came. Preached, taught and prophysied against those very angels that came in Gensis 6. This book was written long before Noah or the Flood. The book of Enoch was part of the Bible and inserted behind the book of Job which is the oldest book of the Bible. During the Canonizing of the Bible it was removed by no other than the Kenites. You decide if it is truth or myth. This text is from the Book Of Enoch. By the way the book of Jude came from this very text.
        VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralization of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels of the Messianic Kingdom– (a Noah fragment).
        ***George, I edited this to remove the extensive quote. A link to the material would be sufficient & is preferred to copying and pasting. I am aware of the Book of Enoch & trust that the Scripture is complete and sufficient (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

      • George, I’d also love your comments on my most recent post: http://jacklamb.name/2010/04/03/did-a-pre-adamic-race-exist-on-earth/

      • No jack – for you to say all races came from two people is confirming that you believe in evolution. how could you say otherwise?

      • Why use a website to answer a question that the bible clearly answers?

      • Bill,
        Why not read the article and answer the arguments it makes?

  • If you look at the Greek and Hebrew Dictionary and it doesn’t matter what version, look under H6633 and H6635. I agree that host could mean what you said, but in that particular verse it means just what it says. A mass of Persons.

    George

    • Context determines the meaning of the word. What in the context makes you feel like it must mean that God created many other people? There is no mention of other people; to understand host to mean that could only be done if you bring that idea to the text – it is not in the text.

      • George, I would appreciate it if you just answered my remarks instead of pasting in huge chunks of text. This makes it difficult for others to follow the conversation. So, What in the context of Genesis 2 makes you feel like it must mean that God created many other people?

      • jack….who did cain marry?

      • Jack with all do respect, you should apply your statement here to your own methods of studying. you clearly said in a prior post that cain married his sister. nowhere does the bible say this. in retrospect, it does say there was a six day man, and an eighth day man. the sixth day men were hunters and fishermen, the eighth day man way a tiller of the ground. there is no way to equate these men to being the same man. (race or kind)

  • Edited by Jack
    deleted for only containing personal insults…

    • Kendall,
      Your comment is being deleted. You have not answered the post only tried to insult.

    • Jack cain went out to the land of Nod and found his wife. This occured after he murdered his brother. IMMEDIATELY. Cain and Able had just came to the age of manhood; hence why they brought forth their offering to God. Cains wife was clearly from the races that were created on the sixth day. That is what is clearly written. Sidebar- God told 6th day man to replenish the earth. That means people were on the earth before; meaning the world existed before it became void and without form. Just as II Peter declares.
      It is impossible that all the races of today came from one couple. please tell me how this could scientifically could be possible

  • You are asking for comments on your post concerning Arnold Murry, my comment to you is that as of all the post that have been placed on this blog you have not used one scripture to back up anything you have claimed to be truth, those that are posting in answer to you have used scripture to back up what they believe. They have also used the Strongs to back up what they believe. You ask everyone to go read your blogs and post but that is not scripture. It is simply your opinion. When you stand before God will your knowledge be from scripture or hersay. I ask you to read Hosea 4:6 and II Timothy 2:15. Now I will ask you what your purpose is in trying to discredit Arnold Murry? Why are you not trying to discredit those preachers that are teaching real false teachings? I doubt that you will post this because you have no answers to my Questions. A person that is really concerned for the truth would not delete comments that have a valid argument with what you claim. Jesus always answered his critics as does Arnold, you don’t. I am betting that you will not post this because you have no answers but instead are looking for a way to discredit another man. In this you are dicrediting yourself. I ask you agian what is your reason and purpose for trying to discredit Arnold?
    1) Is scripture not enough that another source is needed?
    2) Go to his web site and check out what he teaches, you might find something of value.

    • “Judas” you obviously have not read this blog. I certainly am trying to discredit Arnold Murray as a faithful Bible teacher. It’s my duty to warn about false teaching. Everything must be examined by Scripture. That is what we are trying to do here, but instead of answering the Scriptural arguments that I have put forth you try to attack me. That’s a poor strategy. If you want your comments to be published in the future, then you will need to further the conversation by answering arguments previously published.

  • Rev. 3:9 and Rev.2:9.Study this DEEP…

  • May GOD pour out his wrath on you…

    • Rod, please answer the Scripture in the article instead of calling names & praying for wrath. Don’t expect any future comments to be allowed if you disregard this advice.

  • I did not call you a name,WAKE UP…

  • I have an Exhausted Strongs concordance that I purchased off of Ebay and it says Kenite is a member of the tribe of Cain which I would assume would be his offspring. So maybe he is not as far off as some might think.

    Thanks,
    Stacey

  • I think Kenite refers to Canaan, a grandson of Noah from Ham, brother of Cush, Mizraim and Phut. One should provide a clear definition on each of the terms. Semitic refers to descendants of Shem (The Shemitic). Kushite refers to descendants of Cush, son of Ham (The Hamic). The other groups of Noah descendants are The Japhetic, from his son, Japhet.

  • Sorry, I forgot to share my ideas about the meaning of Canaan or Kenite. One can read carefully from the Bible how Canaanite derives from Anaq which means ‘neck.’ Canaan’s sons are famous for their wide shoulder and long neck features.

    In Minangkabau this word ‘kanan’ is today used for telling ‘right’ direction which resembles that of Islamic Quran to describe righteousness, law enforcer, rule uphold communities.

    ‘Anak’ in Minangkabau language as well as other Malay roots means ‘son.’

    I firmly emphasize the use of Minangkabau as reference not because I am a Minangkabauan but because you can only find term & meaning such as ‘ken’ only in that matriarchal west Sumatrans, a term the-so-called ‘Kanduang’ which means ‘same womb.’

    Thus the complete meaning of historical Hebrew language can only be found in an ancient Minangkabau language which I happen to know beside my English background.

    love, peace & brotherhood

  • What God tries to tell Children of Israel is, “Hi guys, look, I keep my promise to give the kingdom to descendant of Ham (Hamidzic).”

    In Arabic, a person who is entitled to hamidzic is Muhammad.

    I love Allah. He always keeps His promises.

    • Awang, thanks for stopping by. Unfortunately, your comments are way off track for the purpose of this post. They are also far from truth. The Messiah would come through Isaac’s descendants not Ishmael. Consider the following:
      Isaac was the only promised child of Abraham, a fact which the Quran agrees with (cf. Genesis 17:15-21; Surah 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30). Ishmael was never a promised child.
      Isaac was conceived miraculously to a barren mother and a very aged father, with the Quran likewise agreeing (cf. Genesis 17:15-17, 18:9-15, 21:1-7; Galatians 4:28-29; Surah 11:69-73, 51:24-30).
      God promised that it would be Isaac’s descendants who would inherit the land given to Abraham. (Genesis 13:14-18, 15:18-21, 28:13-14). Ishmael had no part in the inheritance and promise given to Isaac through Abraham.

  • That’s correct from Biblical point of view in one part, but contradictory with another, the part when Jacob said to his children that the kingdom –and symbol underneath– would not be taken from Juda, not until ‘Shiloh’ comes.

    From several interfaith discussion I got impression that ‘shiloh’ refers to a shaleh (faithful, generous) as well man who performs shalat (prayer, prostrate).

    From Quran: God says to Abraham, “My promise is void to those who go astray.”

    Muslims majority believe that Muhammad is sent to give necessary correction upon the teaching of shalom, syalom or previous Islam.

    In fact, Bible records dates while Quran merely records events.

    But after all, further serious interfaith work is needed to grasp deeper comprehension on this ‘legacy’ issues.

    • Awang, God’s covenant is an everlasting covenant (Genesis 17:7) established by God through Isaac (Genesis 17:21). God does not lie or contradict Himself. Writings claiming to be divine that contradict what God has already said in the Bible are obviously false.

  • I agree with Mr Lamb that Ishmael and his father are Shemitic, so is Muhammad. Furthermore, Quran quotes that the patriarch (Abraham) is not Jewish neither Christian.

    I agree, he is a Shemitic, descendant of Shem from Terach. Thus Muhammad is not Hamitic but Shemitic. But still God keeps his promise though, to Abraham, Jacob and Ishmael.

    Well, there are other sons from his another concubine, Keturah, but Abraham sends them away from the Promised Land, to keep them clean from conflict of realm that occurs between descendants of Jacob (Bna’i Yitsrael) and Bani Ismail which is still lasting today in the land of Levant (Palestine).

    It appears that the world turns only around families of Abraham while goyims remain as complimentary stuntmen in a grand drama scenario that He loves to watch that is sometimes bloody but not seldom romantic.

  • I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

    54And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is. 55And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass. 56Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

    57Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right? 58When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. 59I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

    do ya think this is comming to pass!!

  • Mr lamb, Just as free masons deny there is a secret society (along with the main stream church) to bring in lucifer as the rightful God to sit on the throng, you deny that kenites are from cain. I would hate to stand in your shoes at the White Throng Judgement. As a true Hebrew a completed Jew (Christian) i know that you like many are the ones who will bring satan……

    • Hi Judge, that’s an ironic title since you just dropped by to judge me and not answer any questions posed concerning this heresy.

  • jack…..ive lost track of what your actual question was…..originally you claimed that the Strongs did not make any mention of kenites being the sons of cain?
    am i correct?
    then someone pointed out your error and you asked another question after that…..i think?
    this thread has become rather confusing.

    were you ever satisfied with the answer that you got as to kenites being defined as the children of cain in the strongs?
    it seems as if you accepted that you were wrong about the strongs not containing this definition but then seem to keep arguing the point that you were wrong about.

    sorry if ive gotten it mixed up.

    why dont you ask the original question and the second or third question again just so we can clarify what it is thats being debated at this point.

    ill try to answer your questions in a direct manner.

  • what i did see you say had something to do with the kenites perishing in the deluge.
    to believe that the deluge was worldwide is a mistake.

    youll need to follow the history of the kenites through the Word of God to realize that not all of them perished in the deluge.
    you see…..the kenites become known as the rechabites in later Scripture and then infiltrate the Hebrew Priesthood in 1Chron 2:55.

    there are many lines of study that can help you come to this conclusion but you may also want to do a much deeper study concerning the deluge.
    Noah and his family were the only Adamites in the region who hadnt had their genetics “corrupted” by the fallen angels.

    also…..a study of rechab might be enlightening as well.

  • Read the KJV companion bible and you will see in Ezra and Nehemiah the Kenites did exist.They assumed the duties of the Levite priests and took over the Temple. Jesus called them “The Synagogue of Satan”. Our progenitor as Israelite people(Caucasian) was Adam to Abraham.Christians who read the word do not CELEBRATE pagan holidays such as Christmas and Easter, Christianity is a reality or a lifestyle if you wish. The Passover is as much Christian as Judahite as is the Menorah. We are Judahs brothers Ephraim and Manasseh who were adopted into Israels family, Sons of Joseph.

  • Be a man and post our conversation.

  • The Strong’s is a good reference, so is the Champion Bible then follow the path. Do not stop at a few verses in the KJV. Look at trees used as symbols. Hosea 14:8 God describes Himself as a fir tree . Does this mean He is a fir tree? Of course not. God calls Lucifer many names in the Bible. He is God’s adversary, so he (satan) will use whatever means to put the world in his hands. Whether, as evil spirit or the help of his children. Our Father is just to the end. Put our faith and trust in Him.

    • It is the old Strong’s Concordance, not the current one where the publishers hired a new scribe to “fix” the translation, so good luck finding the untouched one by Dr James Strong with his more than 100 colleagues.

  • I believe pastor murray it makes perfect sense that the first sin had to do with sex.WHY did they know they were naked before this they didnt seem to care! God said the woman would have pain in labor,not an allergic reaction to eating the proverbal apple. I think not,look how David his son rapes his sister the other son kills him, sex and murder david was guilty of both samson fell because of sex lots daugther incest sodom and gammorah perversion baal religion sacrificing of babies sex orgies GOD HATES divorce were supposed to be his bride he warns whoring ourseleves to the anti christ satan has been using sex up until the present time. The family unit no longer exists look at our world everyone shacks up its ok prostitution pornograpy child trafficing yes the kenites did make it through the flood,in genesis 6 it says there were giants on the earth in those days and also after that it does say after that how about goliath and his brothers six fingers six toes how did they make it through the flood? The anakim according to Nm13,33 when the isrealites invaded palestine they found the tall aboriginal anakim. The flood was brought on because fallen angels had sex here we are again sex. The institution of marrige is what Gods word teaches not perversion. I could go on and on all through the bible look at solomon 1000 women his downfall his wives too many brought in their idols and shrines look what happened to the nation his people started following other gods yes I do believe the kenites are the sons of cain and I believe thew blood line is still here! When isrealites went to battle God would tell them to kill everyone but they took prisoners thats why their still here today. Like pastor murray says dont trust this man or any man reeeead the bible and show yourself approved Beloved Joseph from california

    • It is not only Pastor Murray talking about the Kenites. I found it on I believe an English site, because they are talking about Ephraim being England. If one listens to Pastor Murray enough this is a point he does not agree upon. There we have two witnesses.

  • Let’s face it PJ, not one of us agree with anyone of us even among ourselves about any particular subject at any time. But, if we (I) do
    the “Book”, then take a good look at what God wants US to do;
    Spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, “St. John 3:16, 17″ More love people! The World has enought Haters!!!!!!!!

  • Scott’s comment jogged my memory of the relationship of RECHAB the Kenite through Jehonadab – (Jer. 35). The Rechabites seemed to reflect the strict principles of the Nazarites. Vital to observe the scripture @ Jer.35:19- (God promises) There will not be cut off from Jonadab the son of Rechab a man to stand before me always”… also (a non sequiter?) – the Hebrew word for spear is “KAYEN”